Generally, using their current preferred name/pronouns (or neutral pronouns) is best. She’s still the same person, so it’s true to say Caitlyn Jenner won the 1976 Olympic Decathlon. If any other facts about the event itself were directly relevant to the conversation, that’d be ok - e.g. it would be accurate and inoffensive imo to say she won the men’s division.
But name/pronouns change all the time otherwise so it’s more normal to use the current ones. If Ms. Jones gets married and is now Mrs. Smith, it wouldn’t be inaccurate to talk about Mrs. Smith’s car breaking down last summer.
But name/pronouns change all the time otherwise so it’s more normal to use the current ones. If Ms. Jones gets married and is now Mrs. Smith, it wouldn’t be inaccurate to talk about Mrs. Smith’s car breaking down last summer.
That’s such a good and clear comparison.
With a married person who has changed their last name you can use “née” if using a trans persons birth name was for some reason needed (I can’t think of a reason why it would but be though) would something equivalent to "Mrs Smith (née Jones) be appropriate, or largely offensive?
That’s a good question! It’s definitely very rare that a birth name is entirely necessary to use in conversation, but an occasional situation comes up where I’m talking to an old friend about someone who’s since transitioned and I need to use a deadname to let them know who I’m talking about. Generally I say something like “so I ran into Denise, you knew her as Brett back in the day, etc etc etc” and just use Denise from there on. If the person I’m talking to isn’t caught too off guard by that, it’s a very smooth and natural way to handle that as a matter of circumstance and move on to using the preferred name quickly.
One potential answer would be to use “neè” which is translated as “born”. Often used in relation to a bride having changed their last name. e.g. Mrs. Williams neè Smith. That way you’d know that Mrs. Williams used to be Ms. Smith previously. Both are/were valid names - but at different times in the person’s life. Once you establish that the person has gone under a different name previously you can return to using the current name (and any change of pronoun) for all other mentions.
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Excellent write up and thank you, from a trans person.
There’s a million better ways to insult Caitlyn Jenner, such as referring to her as hot garbage!
Nice summary.
With all due respect, what to do about pre transition events?
E.g. who won the 1976 Olympic Decathlon?
Generally, using their current preferred name/pronouns (or neutral pronouns) is best. She’s still the same person, so it’s true to say Caitlyn Jenner won the 1976 Olympic Decathlon. If any other facts about the event itself were directly relevant to the conversation, that’d be ok - e.g. it would be accurate and inoffensive imo to say she won the men’s division.
But name/pronouns change all the time otherwise so it’s more normal to use the current ones. If Ms. Jones gets married and is now Mrs. Smith, it wouldn’t be inaccurate to talk about Mrs. Smith’s car breaking down last summer.
That’s such a good and clear comparison.
With a married person who has changed their last name you can use “née” if using a trans persons birth name was for some reason needed (I can’t think of a reason why it would but be though) would something equivalent to "Mrs Smith (née Jones) be appropriate, or largely offensive?
That’s a good question! It’s definitely very rare that a birth name is entirely necessary to use in conversation, but an occasional situation comes up where I’m talking to an old friend about someone who’s since transitioned and I need to use a deadname to let them know who I’m talking about. Generally I say something like “so I ran into Denise, you knew her as Brett back in the day, etc etc etc” and just use Denise from there on. If the person I’m talking to isn’t caught too off guard by that, it’s a very smooth and natural way to handle that as a matter of circumstance and move on to using the preferred name quickly.
Thank you for explaining and the example.
Np, thank you for asking!
One potential answer would be to use “neè” which is translated as “born”. Often used in relation to a bride having changed their last name. e.g. Mrs. Williams neè Smith. That way you’d know that Mrs. Williams used to be Ms. Smith previously. Both are/were valid names - but at different times in the person’s life. Once you establish that the person has gone under a different name previously you can return to using the current name (and any change of pronoun) for all other mentions.
It’s possible to deadname any person who changed their name for any reason.