- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
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Gotta push the EV infrastructure harder. No good pushing lots of EV cars when the infrastructure isn’t there to support them. Can’t charge at work. Can’t charge at your apartment complex. No charge at the shopping areas. Etc. Other than the high initial cost, I’d suggest that the inconvenience and irritation of trying to locate charging along with range limits is a major factor in people not wanting EV.
This is the #1 reason I won’t be able to get an EV any time soon. We live in a townhouse, and while the HOA gracefully ‘allows’ us to install chargers (because its illegal for them not to allow it), the way the rules are set up it’s practically impossible to actually install one.
For example, here’s our bylaws regarding EV chargers:
- All Charging stations require approval – The application should discuss where the charging station will be mounted, the type of post used to mount it, and, in the townhouses, the path that the charging station wiring will use to get to the common ground. The townhouse owner is also advised that the installation of a charging station on HOA common ground requires a legal agreement between the HOA and the homeowner regarding maintenance and liability of the charging station.
- Chargers of 120V (Level 1) or 240V (Level 2) are allowed. It should be noted that while it is possible to use a 240V extension and there are some 240V extensions sold as charging cables, at this time, the use of such extensions is illegal in Maryland and will not be approved in an application. All 240V outlet plugs must be directly wired to the electrical panels of the house.
- Under no conditions is it acceptable for a charging line to be stretched across a community sidewalk. For a temporary installation of less than 6 months duration, residents may apply to have permission to place a tube under the sidewalk in order to run a 110V extension while their permanent charging station is installed.
- All permanent electrical lines must be buried in conduit according to code and go under any sidewalks, ramps, or gutters. No 240V electrical wires are permitted to be installed under community sidewalks.
- A charging station must be placed inside a single parking space. It cannot straddle the dividing line nor can it be centered in the parking spot as that would interfere with the numbering of the parking space.
- For single family homes a charging station can be mounted directly to the house or garage or mounted on a post that allows easier access to the parking spaces. If post mounted, it should be mounted in the half of the driveway that is closest to the house.
There are a number of things in there that are contradictory. You can install a L2 charger, but if you’re in a townhouse, you’re not allowed to wire it up using 240V. You also can’t place it on your house, because the cord wouldn’t be able to reach and that’s not allowed anyway, because it’d cross a sidewalk. Neat.
Exactly right. The next best step would be for businesses to install them for employees and customers, but that’s a big expense and maintenance problem.
I really don’t know what the answer is. I’m completely for EV, but the unpredictable ,or lack of availability, of charging is a big deal.
Honestly that seems like a pretty bog standard set of requirements for electric vehicle charger. Any electrician should be able to put together a little plan for your HOA. I don’t see why you think that this is an impossible requirement.
The issue is that you can’t run 240V under the sidewalk, where all townhouses have a sidewalk between your front yard and parking spots.
despite our economic prosperity
Fuck you. I could barely afford a Honda Fit.
It’s the super wealthy that are being prosperous meanwhile the rest of us are getting fucked.
Meanwhile every EV on the market is sold as a luxury car and they can’t grok why the fuck nobody’s buying. Gee I fucking Wonder…
More economical and practical than any electric car on the market lol. Too bad they stopped selling them in the states.
It was the largest auto I could afford
I like the car a lot but being 6’3 on long trips is not fin
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When I bought my Volt 10 years ago, I knew more about the car than any of the dealer sales people. I doubt the situation has changed much. That being said, I would hesitate to recommend an EV to a non technically inclined person, because the charging situation is still rough even in CA. Stations are often broken, or the billing doesn’t work, or they are in inconvenient areas. Gas is still the idiot proof option. We will know we’re really in the future when you can go to most grocery stores or strip mall and charge with tap to pay (no stupid app to pre-configure). There has to be 95% reliability. Right now I’d say about 1/5 of stations I visit have something wrong with them in terms of no internet connection for billing, slow charging, illegible UV-damaged screen, or just outright broken hardware. https://heatmap.news/electric-vehicles/nema-14-50-mobile-charger-lucid-air
Standardization is the key.
Regulating that all petrol gas stations also have charging stations for electricity would be a step in the right direction. That way somebody will be on duty to deal with situations that you’ve mentioned above.
I believe in large the reason for all the malfunctions at charging stations is because they’re unmanned.
Stations are often broken, or the billing doesn’t work, or they are in inconvenient areas.
ICE vehicles suffer from the same problems, we’re just accustomed to them and understand how to work around the issues.
I wouldn’t say gas stations have the same frequency of problems honestly. 19 times out of 20, my gas is dispensed without issue. And I’m able to buy it without joining a program or going out of my way. Electric charging is not yet that convenient, and it should be.
Same situation, I have the bolt and volt cars and I drive about the same with the caveat that I coast more often to a stop and make full use of being plugged in at home for warming up or cooling down the car. Really, all you need to know about driving an ev or a hybrid. Everything else is just extra stuff to take care of and make better use of the dollar savings you get with an EV.
On the flipside, I know too many people who don’t care how hard they drive the accelerator and brakes that they would rather get a gas car because of how fast they consume and prioritize time spent fueling vs charging. Really, I save close to 2k/year more than those who drive semi efficiently, and about double that amount vs. the people who are economically irresponsible. Also, I meet a lot of tesla owners who do users using the tesla superchargers who are complaining about how garbage their battery life after 3 years of driving for Uber(20% of degradation). It makes sense why people don’t want to drive an EV. They just don’t want to slow their lives down. They want to constantly keep doing stuff and do it fast. It’s amazing how much instant gratification has made everyone’s lives worse. Even people like me who go slow have to deal with their BS.
Bullshit. These dealers don’t want to sell EVs because they can’t bait you into a sales pitch 4 times a year with free oil changes.
I refuse to buy a DRM infested iPhone / un-rootable Android on wheels with data hoarding spyware and no access to service manuals, parts or service tools. Also decent build quality without excessive and inappropriate use of plastic.
My car is a not a 10 year disposable item. ~< 2008 era cars for me.
I’d argue that cars becoming part of the disposable economy is even worse for the eNViRoMeNt.
What has that got to do with EVs?
I think he’s saying most EV’s are modern cars with this malicious tech. Personally just gonna avoid buying a car as long as I can
I wish it was most. I think you can safely say all. As before the EV trend started, this tech started being used in regular ICE vehicles as well.
Unless you have found an example otherwise. It would be nice to at-least have one option.
What om specially questioning is calling EVs disposable. Why?
There are people who have attempted to get battery replacements for the early model Teslas and the price was either inanely high or most of the time unavailable. For all intents and purposes, I interpret this as the car is not meant to be serviced or repaired long term and therefore disposable.
Granted this is not exclusive to EVs. Most ICE vehicles made in the last 10 years have or will be affected by unavailable parts or worse, serialized parts. Much like FutureMotion’s Onewheel that Louis Rossmann has been covering, even if third parties are willing to make aftermarket parts, they either can’t bypass the DRM or if they do they will be sued into oblivion. Both EV and ICE cars are heading this way and it’s a environmental disaster.
Yeah so as I said elsewhere, don’t buy tesla. But the comment was about EVs in general
I want and have wanted an EV since 2013…can’t afford one. So to be clear, it’s not a matter of wanting, it’s a matter of making an affordable one.
That and long distance travel are my concerns. Will I have to keep stopping for long charging sessions. Will there even be a charger on the route at all.
A third concern is how safe the lithium batteries are for charging, it would have to be inside my garage that is on the 1st floor. I guess it’s probably not too much of a concern but I worry about even leaving small lithium batteries charging unattended.
BYD have made great strides in that area. good, cheap EVs.
$32,000 minimum is not even close to being cheap
BYD’s least expensive EV is far less than $32k USD, but in any case I suppose it’s a matter of perspective.
how you gonna buy one in the US?
Why would I care?
But to answer your question, the word you’re looking for is “import”.
the article is talking about ev sales in the us. i guess i should have just assumed you were too dumb to read the article. also importing is a good way to add 10,000 to the price
I’m not sure why there’s so many slow, dumb fuckers like you on Lemmy, but fyi, I said two sentences.
Importing and such has nothing to do with the topic. They are making good, cheap (sub $32k usd) cars. That is a fact. Their cars - and most importantly, their batteries - are available outside of China. This is a fact.
By virtue of making good cheap cars, and making them available outside of their national borders, it does dramatic things to the rest of the industry to follow suit.
For example, you don’t think Tesla’s price drops have been in a vacuum, do you?
But whatever. You’re dumb as shit, and think arguing on Lemmy makes you less of a waste of space.
It doesn’t, and you are.
Or, you could read what I wrote, instead of what you think I wrote.
A problem with EV is those cars are infected with DRM.
Remember tesla deactivate DLC ?
So don’t buy Tesla
Which EV manufacturer doesn’t use DRM or similar post-sale controls?
You mentioned tesla deactivation tech specifically. That’s not something a lot of manufacturers do. You have options
I’ve totally got the money to buy a new car. My 2005 forester is getting long in the tooth and i’m ready to replace it.
I want a smallish car with the same basic features: AWD, 4door, boxy rear so I can toss a full size mtn bike in there, good in the snow, etc.
My distinct impression is that the manufacturers want to sell high end (all the options and $$) but don’t give a shit about usability. Chevy volt comes close but can’t take a bike.
I wouldn’t exactly call any car that you can throw a full size mountain bike in the back a “small car.” I could barely do that with my old Subaru outback.
At this point in time, you’re going to be looking at a Kia Niro (sans awd), Subaru Solterra / Toyota Bz4x, plug-in hybrid Crosstrek, EV6, EV9, Ioniq 5, Volvo EX30, C40, XC40, Polestar 3, and Tesla model 3 and Y.
But really what you want to do is to put a hitch on the back with a hitch mounted bicycle rack. They cost about 4 to $500 for a full install and will let you carry a bike without needing a huge car.
Your other option of course is a pickup truck like a Rivian, Lightning or Cybertruck but those will set you back probably $75,000 to $100,000.
My 2005 forester is much smaller than many other cars out there. It takes a full size mtn bike just fine. The real key is the boxy shape. The EV9 is bigger but not by much and might be worth me checking out. thx.
I really appreciate having the bike inside after a ride allowing me to stop for food or an errand on the way home.
Yeah the options just don’t exist yet especially under $35k new what would you buy?
Just buy a toyota sienna and come over to the dark side.
the gentle sound of a smoooooth sliding door reveals an entire living room in the back of the minivan (what the hell how much space is there back there is that a pool table??), lounge music begins playing
come in… you know you want to
would you like… a vacuum massage? The center console comes stock with a nice hose.
Look into a Leaf. I love mine. Hatchback trunk with fold down rear seats will fit you bike. I’ve had mine since 2019 and love it.
Hyundai Kona electric is a good option.
This year, 18% of all automobile sales worldwide were electric cars. In the US, that’s about 7%.
Dealers will cry about their inventory while refusing to budge on various “market adjustments”.
Boo hoo. Be competitive and watch the inventory flow.
I’ve been eyeing an Ioniq 5 for about 18 months now and just checked local pricing again and they haven’t budged an inch on pricing (even now with 2024 models being sold with 2023 models left on the lot) nor are they even carrying inventory outside of the most expensive trim packages of Limited AWD. I’m interested in range, so I’m wanting a Limited RWD but they aren’t being stocked.
This article screams “I’m not doing my job and it’s all your fault!”
There’s a 2008 style crash coming in the credit market for cars. There’s a lot of subprime loans and a lot of car companies that got into financing that shouldn’t have. Wait til they really get squeezed. Who am I kidding tho, they will just ask for a bail out.
Some of us are still miffed about the 2008 bailouts, which ran entirely counter to the market forces rhetoric. Then the police turned off all the cameras and ran OWS off with riot squads.
No resolution was offered. even Dodd-Frank was reversed by Trump.
So you can expect a lot of civil unrest. It’s been due since the great depression, about a century ago.
This is bananas to me. The new model is out but last year’s model isn’t discounted? No wonder nobody likes dar dealers.
Meanwhile, up here in Canada I put a down payment on an IONIQ 5 Ultimate Edition (Canadian equivalent of the US ‘Limited’ model) back in early April 2022, and it still hasn’t been ordered, because Hyundai decided to flood the US market while stiffing the Canadian market.
Hyundai (and other EV makers) are fucking around, and then blaming the market.
The dealer near me has added an extra 5 grand for market adjustment too.
Yeah, dealers around here have a huge markup over MSRP, “because there’s so much demand.”
Okay, I can wait.
Issue is the dealership deals made with the auto manufacturers. Inventory on hand is often times (not including some of that bs that had dealerships marking stuff way over msrp) only set up to make the dealership a few thousand in profits.
For any major price reductions that are really needed, the auto manufacturers would have to be giving the vehicles to the dealerships for less money.
In other words, ford will have to drop prices for dealerships to drop prices.
Yeah, smthg smthg capitalism, smthg smthg free market, amirite?
Don’t forget “too big to fail.”
I agree with them but not for the reasons they would like, less pushing of EVs more pushing of good public transportation.
I’m not buying an EV not because of lack of infrastructure or lack of interest, but because the product sucks.
I’m not buying a gas car either for the same product sucking reason, and an active desire to never purchase a gas car again.
You are very wrong. The product most definitely does not suck.
Petrol cars are unbelievably good right now even from bad manufacturers like Chrysler the reliability is through the roof.
Electric cars have come a long way they still have their hiccups but in general they function perfectly fine now. I most definitely will not recommend getting a Tesla from 2013 but something like a Chevy volt or a Volkswagen or a mustang EV are very very good cars.
Subscriptions to use any part of my car and even more tracking than my ICE car are part of the product, and that sucks. I beg to differ on me being wrong, on those two counts specifically.
No matter what the stability, reliability, and safety are, the two things I mentioned are each sufficient grounds to not buy pretty much any of the modern cars, EV or ICE.
What a weird outlook you have. I don’t even have a way to rebut it. You simultaneously agree and disagree with me. And at the same time still your only qualification that makes a car bad is the software which you personally do not like.
There are a myriad of cars out there that don’t have this kind of software built into it. There are even EVs that don’t have the software built into it.
I even agree with you I drive a Volkswagen id4 and the software in it is beyond horrific there have been times where I had to sit around poking around menus trying to figure out how to make my car actually run.
However, in my interpretation the benefits significantly outweigh the negatives of owning an electric vehicle not being tethered to gasoline is an extremely freeing experience. It is also significantly cheaper.
I feel like you just made something up so you don’t have to like EVs.
I feel like you just made something up so you don’t have to like EVs.
- The fact that this is your takeaway from my messages (in addition to your general tone) just shows you are trying to push a self-righteous agenda without properly identifying who are your allies and opponents. I abhor ICEs and would have bought an EV by now if not for the scummy companies producing them, and the fact that I basically do not drive anymore so switching my relatively unused car out for any replacement vehicle does not make sense. I’d sooner just sell the car and wash my hands of them entirely.
What a weird outlook you have.
- Not likely subscription services and the car manufacturers tracking me is not “weird” it’s well justified. I don’t like my insurance company tracking me either which is why I heavily restrict the permissions their app has (and use a second phone for it). ICE and EV manufacturers have immense overlap and I’ve yet to hear of one that actually respects their customers and doesn’t turn their products into drivable spyware.
I don’t even have a way to rebut it.
- Perhaps you should quit the contrarian behavior since you’re not putting in the effort to be one. You’ve already demonstrated you aren’t putting in the effort to read my messages by openly misidentifying me as an EV hater.
You said that reliability and all that is irrelevant, only the tracking and the software on the vehicles is why you don’t like them.
Your original comment said that modern cars suck or a crappy my rebuttle was that they are not they’re significantly more reliable than older cars even from crappy manufacturers.
What in your comments above has anything to do with that?
The world changes things become better and things become worse the fact that you don’t like it is completely irrelevant back in the 80s you could use a flathead screwdriver to start up a car you can’t do that anymore because of modern software and technology.
So circling back around you are wrong, modern cars are better than older ones. Aside from your personal preference of not liking how they make cars today with the technology that’s in them do you have anything to substantiate your claim?
What does a modern car get me over my 15 year old Corolla as far as reliability? Idk if I really need something that lasts longer, to be honest. I’ve put less than $1000 in this car other than wear items like tires in 15 years, and it cost less than $16k off the lot brand new. A new car would have to get like double the mileage or last a million miles without breaking down to be significantly better than mine, and it would have to be significantly better, because it’s going to cost significantly more even if I get the absolute cheapest cars on the market in their case trim.
I mean it’s great that you personally have a 15-year-old reliable car. And yet people are still buying brand new cars every single day.
It’s almost as though your personal preferences and property have absolutely no relevance in the buying habits of others.
I think you vastly overestimate how many people buy new cars. Most new cars are bought by the same group of people year after year. Almost 75% of cars purchased in America yearly are used. It’s really only a specific class of people who can afford to buy new cars. It is not the norm.
Gas prices keep going up and electricity keeps getting cheaper. Factor in that and never having to pay for an oil change again and an electric car starts looking much cheaper.
It is much cheaper. My 40k VW id4 on sticker costs me about 700 less than a 30k gas powered car with the payment being 500 dollars more!
I don’t have to buy gas, change the oil and the brakes last longer due to regenerative braking.
I charge at home and haven’t touched a gas pump since last summer.
I mean, if you’re well off enough to buy a $30k car, you’re better off than most Americans anyway. What about those of us that couldn’t afford that, and instead are faced with the choice of taking out exploitative loans and paying for years, or keeping our high mileage, high MPG vehicles?
It seems there’s an assumption that everyone eventually has to buy a new car, but that’s not true. I can count the number of people in my life who have ever bought a new car on one hand. The rest rely on old junkers they replace every couple years because $2000/2yrs is significantly more affordable for someone in poverty than $30,000+ in one year, or $500/mo payments for 5.
Like for me, I spend $30/mo on gas. That’s it. I spend about $25/yr on oil changes, I spend $75/every 2 years on emissions. I’d have to save a hell of a lot more than just gas and upkeep costs to save even a single dollar, and even then I’m definitively losing money over just keeping my car because I will have to pay payments for years because I don’t have the money to buy a new car outright. Personally, I will never buy a new car, nor take a loan for Car, so that puts EVs even further out of my reach. Wheres the $5-10k EVs that are present in much of the world? I don’t want a 16” tv in my dash, or heated seats, or a vision system, or rain sensing windows. I want a bare bones car, with no luxuries, for as cheap as possible, that is as efficient as possible. My 15 year old Corolla is better than the majority of modern cars available in my country in nearly every respect that is meaningful to me than any EVs available for sale in my country, every way except emissions. Unfortunately, my economic security takes priority over individualist attempts to address climate change.
Used electric cars are showing up more and more. You can get one for $10-15k and that’s before you factor in the EV tax rebates.
My original comment was in the context of new versus new. If a person is going to buy a $30,000 car regardless it’s cheaper to get an electric one because you never have to buy gas for it.
I have no idea why you’re bringing up your 15-year-old Corolla or your personal operating cost for it why are you bringing up car sales in America new versus used none of this is relevant.
13 million new cars were sold in America in 2022 that is a substantial amount of cars the fact that more used cars were sold is more or less a sign of the times than anything else, moreover there has been a massive chip shortage less new cars are being made.
As a matter of fact statistically speaking the majority of people keep the cars they already bought for years and years at a time which means that car sales are going to go down anyway. So the fact that more used cars are being sold then new ones is also irrelevant.
I spend $30/month on gas. Electricity is gonna have to get a whoooole lot cheaper to justify at minimum $30,000 to purchase an EV. Maybe if we get rid of some of the protectionism and allow Chinese $10k EVs into the US I’d consider it. An oil change once a year over the course of owning a car is less than $1000… it costs $25 to do yourself, $50 to have someone else do it. That’s… not a significant cost for even the poorest of people.
Prices on used EVs are coming way down and there are significant tax rebates.
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However, what those dealers are leaving out of their argument is that BEVs are not the only vehicles sitting unsold on their lots.
In fact, new-vehicle inventory is at a two-year high, according to Cox Automotive research.
As of the start of November, new-vehicle inventory volume in the US was sitting at a record 2.4 million units. It is safe to say that those are mostly gasoline-powered vehicles since the inventory level is currently higher than the number of EVs that the US will produce all year.
The truth is that the current interest rates have affected all automotive sales, EVs or otherwise.
It’s true some of those people who placed reservations for EVs last year are reconsidering their purchases now, as highlighted by the >group of dealers, but that’s not because they are not interested in EVs anymore. It’s because they can’t afford the several hundred >dollars more for the monthly payments now, thanks to high interest rates.
Some wont Stock them https://electrek.co/2023/05/09/us-car-dealers-evs/
I legitimately want to know the source for “they can sell them, they just don’t want to order what people want to buy.”
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If they can’t sell it, then they’ll lower prices and people will be able to buy them.
I doubt the profits are so hard to come up with considering the wild CEO pay and record profits everyone’s bragging about.
Just bought an EV from a local dealer. Went in on Saturday because they had a 2 month used listing on their website for about 10k under MSRP. They told me, oh no that sold, but please check out the new cars. I entertained them and told them they’d need to bring down the price 10k to get me to sign because it’s simply out of my price range. They also mentioned these things (ioniq 6) are selling extremely quickly and they only have a few on the lot.
They insisted and played games for a week, with offers OVER msrp, so I let them waste their time. They pushed me to come in, so as I was about to sign, I told them, actually, no. I need an offer 10k under MSRP or I’m leaving. At this point that was a 15k cut. They’ve now wasted a week of negotiation and suddenly found the used one I originally requested, but it was at their off-site lot.
We drove over there, and it was a large 5 story parking deckcompletely filled to the top. They even had cars parked in front of cars. They tried one last game and made me wait for 3 hours to get it out.
All that is to say, let the fuckers bleed. If they can’t afford Christmas, maybe they need to learn what the fuck capitalism really means. If they can’t afford new years, it’s time to make a new resolution and if they can’t afford spring break, it’s time to find a new job.
Yeah lol… Why curb supply to artificially keep prices high? Sounds like a antitrust issue.
We can keep producing mass amounts of EV’s; we’ll just store them all in caves in middle America.
It’ll be like government cheese all over again!
I’ll take some of that government EV. Maybe fill it with government cheese too while they’re at it.
Fellas, fellas, please. I assume you, I wouldn’t buy the gas one either.
